Chimneys - Requirements and test methods for clay/ceramic flue terminals

This European Standard specifies the requirements for clay/ceramic flue terminals with solid walls, which serve to convey the products of combustion from the flue to the atmosphere by negative pressure. It includes terminals used on domestic and industrial chimneys which are not structurally independent (freestanding). This standard specifies the performance requirements for factory made terminals. Testing, marking and inspection are covered by this standard.

Abgasanlagen - Anforderungen und Prüfverfahren für Keramik-Aufsätze

Diese Europäische Norm legt die Anforderungen für Keramik-Aufsätze mit massiven Wandungen fest, die dazu dienen, Verbrennungsprodukte vom Zug an die Außenluft durch Unterdruck abzuleiten. Sie beinhaltet Aufsätze für Haus- und Industrie-Abgasanlagen, die nicht freistehend sind. Diese Europäische Norm enthält Leistungsanforderungen an werkmäßig hergestellte Aufsätze. Sie enthält ferner die Anforderungen an die Prüfung, Kennzeichnung und Qualitätskontrolle.

Conduits de fumée - Terminaux en terre cuite/céramique - Prescriptions et méthodes d'essai

La présente Norme européenne spécifie les exigences et les méthodes d'essais applicables aux terminaux en terre cuite/céramique a parois pleines servant a acheminer les produits de combustion du conduit a l'atmosphere, sous pression négative. Elle s'applique également aux terminaux utilisés sur les conduits de fumée a usages domestique et industriel qui ne sont pas autoporteurs. La présente norme spécifie les exigences de performance pour les terminaux fabriqués en usine. Cette norme comprend aussi le marquage et le contrôle.

Dimniki - Zahteve in preskusne metode za keramične zaključke dimničnih tuljav

General Information

Status
Published
Publication Date
31-Dec-2002
Technical Committee
Current Stage
6060 - National Implementation/Publication (Adopted Project)
Start Date
01-Jan-2003
Due Date
01-Jan-2003
Completion Date
01-Jan-2003

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EN 13502:2003
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2003-01.Slovenski inštitut za standardizacijo. Razmnoževanje celote ali delov tega standarda ni dovoljeno.Chimneys - Requirements and test methods for clay/ceramic flue terminalsConduits de fumée - Terminaux en terre cuite/céramique - Prescriptions et méthodes d'essaiAbgasanlagen - Anforderungen und Prüfverfahren für Keramik-AufsätzeTa slovenski standard je istoveten z:EN 13502:2002SIST EN 13502:2003en91.060.40ICS:SLOVENSKI
STANDARDSIST EN 13502:200301-januar-2003







EUROPEAN STANDARDNORME EUROPÉENNEEUROPÄISCHE NORMEN 13502October 2002ICS 91.060.40English versionChimneys - Requirements and test methods for clay/ceramicflue terminalsConduits de fumée - Terminaux en terre cuite/céramique -Prescriptions et méthodes d'essaiAbgasanlagen - Anforderungen und Prüfverfahren fürKeramik-AufsätzeThis European Standard was approved by CEN on 31 August 2002.CEN members are bound to comply with the CEN/CENELEC Internal Regulations which stipulate the conditions for giving this EuropeanStandard the status of a national standard without any alteration. Up-to-date lists and bibliographical references concerning such nationalstandards may be obtained on application to the Management Centre or to any CEN member.This European Standard exists in three official versions (English, French, German). A version in any other language made by translationunder the responsibility of a CEN member into its own language and notified to the Management Centre has the same status as the officialversions.CEN members are the national standards bodies of Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece,Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and United Kingdom.EUROPEAN COMMITTEE FOR STANDARDIZATIONCOMITÉ EUROPÉEN DE NORMALISATIONEUROPÄISCHES KOMITEE FÜR NORMUNGManagement Centre: rue de Stassart, 36
B-1050 Brussels© 2002 CENAll rights of exploitation in any form and by any means reservedworldwide for CEN national Members.Ref. No. EN 13502:2002 E



EN 13502:2002 (E)2ContentspageForeword.31Scope.42Normative references.43Terms and Definitions.44Product shape.65Materials.66Tolerances on dimensions.66.1Size.66.2Height.66.3Squareness of base end of parallel sided flue terminals.67Acid resistance.68Freeze/ thaw resistance.69Flow resistance.710Aerodynamic behaviour.710.1General.710.2Ridge terminals.710.3Type 0 restricted flue terminals.710.4Type 1 restricted flue terminals.710.4Type 2 restricted flue terminals.711Evaluation of conformity.711.1Initial type testing.711.2Further type tests.711.3Factory production control.812Test methods.812.1Internal transverse dimensions.812.2Height.812.3Squareness of base end of parallel sided flue terminals.912.4Acid resistance.912.5Freeze/thaw.1112.6Flow resistance.1212.7Aerodynamic behaviour for Type 1 restricted flue terminals.1312.8Aerodynamic behaviour for Type 2 restricted flue and ridge terminals.1313Designation.1614Marking.17Annex A
(normative)
Sampling procedures for an AQL of 10 % and Inspection Level S2.18Annex ZA
(informative)
Clauses of this European standard addressing the provisions ofthe EU Construction Products Directive.22



EN 13502:2002 (E)3ForewordThis document EN 13502:2002 has been prepared by Technical Committee CEN/TC 166 “Chimneys”,the secretariat of which is held by UNI.This European Standard shall be given the status of a national standard, either by publication of anidentical text or by endorsement, at the latest by April 2003, and conflicting national standards shall bewithdrawn at the latest by July 2004.This document has been prepared under a mandate given to CEN by the European Commission andthe European Free Trade Association and supports essential requirements of EU Directive(s).For relationship with EU directives, see informative annex ZA which is an integral part of thisdocument.Annex A is normative.According to the CEN/CENELEC Internal Regulations, the national standards organizations of thefollowing countries are bound to implement this European Standard: Austria, Belgium, CzechRepublic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta,Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom.



EN 13502:2002 (E)41 ScopeThis European Standard specifies requirements and test methods for clay/ceramic flue terminals withsolid walls, which serve to convey the products of combustion from the flue to the atmosphere bynegative pressure. It includes terminals used on domestic and industrial chimneys which are notstructurally independent (free standing). This standard specifies the performance requirements forfactory made terminals. Marking and inspection are also covered by this standard.2 Normative referencesThis European Standard incorporates by dated or undated reference, provisions from otherpublications. These normative references are cited at the appropriate places in the text, and thepublications are listed hereafter. For dated references, subsequent amendments to or revisions of anyof these publications apply to this European Standard only when incorporated in it by amendment orrevision. For undated references the latest edition of the publication referred to applies (includingamendments).EN 1443, Chimneys – General requirements.ISO 2859-1, Sampling procedures for inspection by attributes - Part 1: Sampling schemes indexed byacceptance quality limit (AQL) for lot-by-lot inspection.3 Terms and DefinitionsFor the purposes of this European Standard, the terms and definitions given in EN 1443 and thefollowing apply.3.1nominal size (DN)numerical designation of size of the base of flue terminals which is a convenient round number equalto or approximately equal to either:a) the internal diameter in millimetres of circular flue terminals;b) the internal width in millimetres of square or octagonal flue terminals when measured betweenopposite parallel sides;c) the internal width and breadth in millimetres of the cross section of rectangular flue terminals.3.2nominal heightnumerical designation of the height in millimetres of a flue terminal which is a convenient roundnumber approximately equal to the overall height of the flue terminal including any decoration3.3open-topped terminalterminal designed for fitting directly to the outlet of an open flue system (see Figure 1) or coveredterminal with outlets twice the cross-sectional area of the outlet flue. The hydraulic diameter remainsconstant throughout the height of the terminal



EN 13502:2002 (E)5Figure 1 — Examples of open-topped flue terminals3.4ridge terminalrestricted terminal designed for fitting at the ridge of a building (see Figure 2).NOTERidge terminals are used only with gas appliances.Figure 2 — Example of ridge terminal3.5restricted flue terminalterminal designed with outlets having a total opening area less than twice the cross-sectional area ofthe outlet flue (see Figure 3)Figure 3 — Examples of restricted flue terminals



EN 13502:2002 (E)64 Product shapeFlue terminals shall be parallel sided or tapered with outlets not specified but adequate to disperseproducts of combustion and have a base end which shall be either:a)circular in cross-section with or without parallel ends; orb)square, rectangular or octagonal in cross-section with rounded internal and external corners andwith or without parallel ends.5 MaterialsFlue terminals shall be manufactured from suitable clay/ceramic material which when fired meet theperformance requirements given in this standard.Flue terminals shall be unglazed or glazed on the interior and/or exterior. When glazed, they need notbe glazed on the jointing surfaces.6 Tolerances on dimensions6.1 SizeWhen tested in accordance with 12.1, the internal diameter of circular flue terminals measured on anydiameter shall not deviate by more than ± 5 % of the manufacturer’s stated nominal internal diameter.The internal length of a side of square, rectangular or octagonal section flue terminals shall not deviateby more than ± 5 % of the manufacturer’s stated nominal internal length of the side.6.2 HeightWhen tested in accordance with 12.2, the height of flue terminals shall not deviate more than -2 %+5 % of the manufacturer’s stated nominal height.6.3 Squareness of base end of parallel sided flue terminalsWhen tested in accordance with 12.3, the permissible deviation from square of the base end of flueterminals shall be not greater than an angle of slope 30 mm/m.7 Acid resistanceWhen tested in accordance with 12.4, the mass loss from any test piece shall not exceed 5,0 %.8 Freeze/ thaw resistanceThe manufacturer shall declare the freeze-thaw resistance of his product expressed in terms oflamination, cracking or flaking.When tested in accordance with 12.5.2 (Spray test), a terminal shall pass the test if significantlamination, cracking or flaking has not occurred.



EN 13502:2002 (E)79 Flow resistanceThe manufacturer shall declare the flow resistance of his product expressed as flow resistance factor.When tested in accordance with 12.6, a flue terminal shall have a flow resistance factor not greaterthan the manufacturer’s declared flow resistance factor value.10 Aerodynamic behaviour10.1 GeneralThe smallest dimension of any opening in a restricted flue terminal shall be greater than 10 mm.10.2 Ridge terminalsWhen tested in accordance with 12.8 ridge terminals shall have a resistance factor, K, not greater than15.10.3 Type 0 restricted flue terminalsType 0 restricted flue terminals shall not be tested for aerodynamic behaviour.10.4 Type 1 restricted flue terminalsWhen tested in accordance with 12.7 with a wind pressure angles between +90º and –45º, Type 1restricted flue terminals shall have a static pressure not greater than: -DPR
=
0,2
x Vw2
x
PawhereDPRis the manufacturer’s declared pressure difference in Pascals (Pa) between flueterminal and the test room at an internal flow velocity of 2 m/sVwis the wind speed in metres per second (m/s)For negative pressure chimneys the maximum value of PR shall be 2 Pa.10.5 Type 2 restricted flue terminalsWhen tested in accordance with 12.8, Type 2 restricted flue terminals shall have a resistance factor, K,not greater than 5.11 Evaluation of conformity11.1 Initial type testingType tests for the required characteristics given in Table 1 shall be performed at the beginning of theproduction. One test shall be carried for each requirement.11.2 Further type testsType tests shall be performed also when a change is made either in material composition, processingtechnique or to the design or method of manufacture of the flue terminal (see Table 1).



EN 13502:2002 (E)8NOTE These tests can be performed more frequently by incorporation into a plan for monitoring theconsistency of manufacture.Table 1 — Factory production control and type testsRelevant test clausesItemFactory production control11.3Type tests 11.1 and 11.2Flue terminal6.1, 6.2 and 6.37, 8, 9 and 10NOTE
The tests carried out during FPC are intended to verify that the performancerequirements assessed through the initial type testing are maintained.11.3 Factory production controlTo achieve compliance with this standard the manufacturer shall establish and maintain an effectivedocumented quality system.Factory production control tests are carried out following manufacture to monitor the quality of product(see Table 1).Sampling and testing of any batch shall be completed prior to removal from the factory and shall be inaccordance with ISO 2859-1 at an AQL of 10 % and inspection level S2. Isolated batches of units shallbe assessed in accordance with tightened inspection procedures, with a maximum batch size of 1 200(see annex A).Batches rejected under the factory production control procedure may be resubmitted once, afterremoval of units with previously undetected visible defects, under the tightened inspection procedures,in respect only of the defect that caused initial rejection.12 Test methods12.1 Internal transverse dimensionsThe maximum and minimum diameters or width/breadth as appropriate of clay/ceramic flue terminalsshall be those calculated from the tolerances given in 6.1. If direct measurement is to be carried out,take two measurements at the observed maximum and minimum internal transverse dimensions.For circular section flue terminals, the test also may be carried out using two gauges whose diametersare set at the minimum and maximum diameters. The minimum gauge shall be able to be turnedthrough 360° within the ends of the flue. The maximum gauge shall not be able to enter the flue whentested through a rotation of 360°.For square, rectangular and octagonal flue terminals, the internal cross-section dimensions shall bemeasured between the mid-points of opposite sides of the flue terminals.12.2 HeightThe maximum and minimum internal height of a clay/ceramic flue terminal shall be those calculatedfrom the tolerances given in 6.2. If direct measurement is to be carried out, take two measurements atthe observed maximum and minimum heights.



EN 13502:2002 (E)9The test also may be carried out by using two gauges whose heights are set at the minimum andmaximum internal heights. The minimum gauges shall be not able to fit over the internal height of theflue terminal. The maximum gauge shall be able to fit over the internal height of the flue terminal.12.3 Squareness of base end of parallel sided flue terminalsThe test gauge as shown in Figure 4 with one arm set at a slope of 30 mm/m to the other shall beprovided with two pairs of supports at (50 ± 5) mm centres. The end support shall be positioned sothat there is a recess of (30 ± 5) mm from the inside of the angled arm. The slope of the supports shallbe such as to provide a clearance of at least 5 mm under the test gauge. The angled arm shall be ofsuch a length as to span the outside diameter/width of the flue terminal.Place the gauge on the base of the flue terminal, at the line of the longest external measurement ofthe flue terminal and where the terminal has parallel sides. Check the slope of the end against that ofthe gauge.Dimensions in millimetresLongitudinal section of a gaugeCross section of gaugeFlue terminal passing testFlue terminal failing testFigure 4 — Test gauge for squareness of ends test12.4 Acid resistance12.4.1 Test specimensThe test specimens shall be six freshly broken pieces of flue terminal or the inner wall of a flueterminal with vertical perforations about [50 ´ 103] mm3 ± [10 ´ 103] mm3 in volume free from cracks orshattered edges.The thickness (E) of the test specimen shall be measured first (correct to ±1,0 mm).The plan area of test specimen shall equal approximately E50000 mm2



EN 13502:2002 (E)10The length of side for a square sided specimen shall equal approximately E50000 mmExample:-
Wall thickness of flue terminal =12 mmPlan area
1250000
mm2
= 4 167 mm2Length of side4167 mm
=
approximately 65 mm12.4.2 Test equipment12.4.2.1Ventilated oven capable of maintaining a temperature of 110 °C ± 5 °C.12.4.2.2Balance with an accuracy of ± 0,01 g when loaded with 200 g.12.4.2.3Water boiling bath.12.4.2.42 l beaker.12.4.2.5Supply of de-ionized water.12.4.2.6Sulfuric acid solution, c[H2SO4] = 70 % by mass [density at 20 °C =1,610 kg/m3].12.4.2.7Barium chloride drops [concentration 50 g/l].12.4.3 Test procedureClean the test specimens in de-ionized water using a soft brush to remove any loose particles and drythem at a temperature of (110 ± 5) °C until no further loss of mass ± 0,01 g is noted on successiveweighings at 24 h intervals. Record the dry weight of the specimen in grams (M1).Place the dried test specimens in a 2 l beaker and immerse for (6 ± 0,1) h in 1,5 l of sulfuric acidsolution. Cover the beaker by a watch glass to limit evaporation of the acid and stand the beaker in abath of gently boiling water.On removal from the acid solution, place each specimen in a separate beaker and wash by immersionin de-ionized water for 30 min, heat the water to boiling in 15 min and hold at boiling for a further15 min.Test for the presence of sulfate on a test-tube sample taken from the rinsing bath. Add several dropsof a barium chloride solution in de-ionized water at the rate of 50 g per litre.Repeat the washing cycle, changing the rinsing water after each cycle, until the water no longerbecomes turbid when a few drops of barium chloride are added or a maximum of 100 washing cycles(approximately 50 hrs of rinsing).After washing, dry the test specimens at a temperature of (110 ± 5) °C until no further loss of mass± 0,01 g is noted on successive weighings at 24 h intervals. Record the final dry weight of thespecimen in grams (M2).12.4.4 Expression of resultsThe loss of acid soluble matter in each of the test pieces shall be calculated as a percentage of the drymass as follows:



EN 13502:2002 (E)11percentage loss in dry mass = 12-1M).100M(M12.5 Freeze/thaw12.5.1 Vacuum test ( alternative test method )A test terminal shall be made using the same materials and methods of manufacture as the flueterminal. It shall be not less than 150 mm high and of such a nominal size and wall thickness as to betypical of the range of flue terminals produced.Examine the test terminal prior to the test, and mark any defects which are already present.Place the test terminal in an airtight box and evacuate to 300 mm ± 10 mm of mercury, taking care toplace it in such a position as to permit gradual immersion during the next operation.Maintain the vacuum for at least 2 h. Introduce water into the box by suction in such a way thatcomplete immersion of the terminal is obtained in about 30 min. Relax the vacuum and leave testterminal immersed for 2 hrs ± 15 min.Subject the test terminal to the following sequence of freezing and thawing. (a)Place the test terminal a tank filled with water which is itself located in the centre of a refrigeratorand cooled to a temperature of not greater than 5 °C. (b)Draw out the water and continue the freezing until the test terminal reaches a temperature of(-15 ± 5) °C. During this stage the air in the surrounding refrigerator shall be agitated by fans. (c)Introduce water into the tank at a temperature of (15 ± 5) °C until the test terminal is completelyimmersed. Keep the terminal for not less than 30 min in the water maintained at this temperature byheating and stirring so that the temperature in the test terminal reaches (15 ± 5) °C at the end of theperiod.Repeat the freezing and thawing operation 25 times. Remove the test terminal and examine forevidence of lamination, cracking or flaking.12.5.2 Spray test (reference test method)The terminal to be tested shall be fully immersed in water at ambient temperature for at least 7 daysprior to testing to ensure complete saturation.Place the saturated terminal upright on the base of a freezer test chamber containing both a heaterunit and a water spray unit. The terminal shall be in such a position as to allow the water spray to bedirected to impinge within 100 mm of the top of the terminal and then allowed to run down the outerface.NOTETerminals which are more than 1 m high can have their top section removed by saw cut.Place the control thermocouple inside the terminal at the centre line and touching the inner skin on theside facing the heater.The refrigeration unit shall be capable of lowering the temperature at the control thermocouple positionto at least -2 °C at the end of the specified thawing period.The capacity of the heater unit shall ensure that the temperature at the control thermocouple positionshall rise to at least +3 °C by the end of the specified spraying periods.Drainage shall be provided to the chamber to remove the sprayed water.



EN 13502:2002 (E)12Cover the top of the terminal with a loose fitting cap of thin sheet metal or foil in order to maintainsubstantially still air conditions within the terminal during circulation of the cold air.Subject the terminal to 100 cycles of freezing and thawing. Each cycle shall consist of (150 ± 1) min at–15 °C air temperature, approximately 20 min of radiant heat, (10 ± 1) min of water spray of at least8 l/min, (2 ± 1) min to drain the chamber.Examine the terminal for evidence of lamination, cracking or flaking.12.6 Flow resistance12.6.1 ApparatusThe apparatus for testing flue terminal, which shall have a fan, shall have a range of throughputsvariable between 15 m3/h and 120 m3/h to an accuracy of ± 5 %. The orifice plate to measure the flowshall be sized accordingly.12.6.2 Procedure for restricted flue terminalsConnect the flue terminal to a flue liner with the same nominal internal diameter. The length of straightrigid flue liner below the flue terminal shall be at least six times the nominal internal diameter. Placepitot tubes in the flue liner at a distance of approximately three times the nominal internal diameterfrom the terminal. At least three pitot tubes 1 mm diameter shall be evenly distributed around thecircumference of the flue liner, in a plane perpendicular to the flue liner axis. The pitot tubes shall havesmooth openings into the inside of the flue liner. The pitot tubes shall be used to determine theaverage static pressure within the flue liner.Deliver air by means of the fan at a nominal velocity in the flue of 2 m/s ± 2,5 %.Measure the pressure difference between the static pressure in the flue liner and the pressure in thetest room. The pressure difference shall be measured with an accuracy of ± 1,0 Pa.The flow resistance factor shall be calculated from the following formula:om221nwrrVD=wherezis the zeta = friction factorDris the measured friction in Pascalsris the density of air = 1,202 kg/m2wnomis the nominal velocity in metres per second12.6.3 ResultsRecord the results.



EN 13502:2002 (E)1312.7 Aerodynamic behaviour for Type 1 restricted flue terminals12.7.1 Apparatus12.7.1.1 GeneralThe apparatus for testing restricted flue terminal, which shall have a fan, shall have a range ofthroughputs variable between 15 m3/h and 120 m3/h to an accuracy of ± 5 %. One suitable method fordetermining the air flow rate is by the use of orifice plates.12.7.1.2Wind generator, capable of delivering a minimum wind front of 5 times the projected crosssection of the terminal to be tested but not less than 1 m2. The overall wind velocity distribution shallbe within 0,25 m/s at velocities up to 10 m/s at the terminal test position.12.7.2 ProcedureConnect the flue terminal to a flue liner with the same nominal internal diameter. The length of straightrigid flue liner below the flue terminal shall be at least 6 times the nominal internal diameter. Place pitottubes in the flue liner at a distance of approximately 3 times the nominal internal diameter from theterminal. At least three pitot tubes 1 mm diameter shall be evenly distributed around the circumferenceof the flue liner, in a plane perpendicular to the flue liner axis. The pitot tubes shall have smoothopenings into the inside of the flue liner. The pitot tubes shall be used to determine the average staticpressure within the flue liner.Deliver air by means of the fan at a nominal velocity in the flue of 2 m/s ± 2,5 %.Rotate the flue terminal in front of the wind system in such a way that the wind pressure anglesrelative to the flue terminal range from downward wind (+ 90°) to an upward wind (- 45°) in maximumsteps of 7,5 °.Determine the pressure characteristics through wind influences of the flue terminal under the followingconditions:- a nominal velocity of 2 m/s in the flue liner- wind speeds of 3, 6, 9, 12 m/s in combination with wind direction angles ranging from– 45° to + 90°.Measure the pressure difference between the static pressure in the flue liner and the pressure in thetest room. The pressure difference is measured with an accuracy of ± 0,2 Pa.12.7.3 ResultsRecord the pressure characteristics.12.8 Aerodynamic behaviour for Type 2 restricted flue and ridge terminals12.8.1 ApparatusThe apparatus for testing restricted flue or ridge terminals shall be as shown in Figure 5 or Figure 6respectively. The wind generator shall be capable of delivering a wind front of approximately 1 m2 atspeeds up to at least 10 m/s. The fan shall have a range of throughputs variable between 40 m3/h and120 m3/h and the orifice plate to measure the flow shall be sized accordingly.The length of straight rigid flue pipe below the flue terminal shall be at least 1 m and of the samematerial as the flue terminal.
A pitot tube shall be used to measure the static pressure 0,5 m belowthe terminal.



EN 13502:2002 (E)1412.8.2 Procedure for restricted flue terminals and ridge terminals under wind-free conditionsMeasure the static pressure in millibars within the flue 0,5 m below the terminal for a range of flueflows between 40 m3/h and 80 m3/h, for 125 mm terminals, or between 60 m3/h and 120 m3/h, for150 mm terminals.Plot a graph of static pressure in millibars against the square of the flue flow in m3/h.NOTE
This graph should be a straight line passing through the origin.Record the maximum static pressure in millibars.12.8.3 Calculation of the resistance factor for open-topped terminalsCalculate the resistance factor, K, of the flue terminal using the following equation:K = slope of graph x CwhereC = 3,43 ´ 105 for a 125 mm internal diameter flue pipe or 7,11 ´ 105 for a 150 mm internaldiameter flue pipe.12.8.4 Procedure for testing restricted flue terminals under wind conditionsPosition the terminal symmetrically about the vertical axis and in the centre of the wind front.Use two wind approach angles measured in the horizontal plane, one with the wind blowing inbetween supports and the other with the wind blowing at the support (se
...

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